tour averages?

Posted: Sun 2:29, 13 Feb 2011

Hello Dariusz, went to a golf expo today to look around. One company there was doing a demo of their teaching technology, strapped on a harness that measured hip and shoulder posistion throughout the swing. I am constantly working on the things that I have learned from your research and watching Mr. Hogan's swing wherever I can find them. (Just finished Kris Tschetter's book "Mr. Hogan, the man I knew" TONS of great stuff in there!) Anyway, I found out some interesting things that I was doing AND how he (Golf Instructor) interpted them. He was comparing all my measurements to tour averages. Tour standard for hip turn is 48* being open at address by I think it was about 3* and open at impact at 42*. I was measured at 60* for my turn and 34* at impact, which he said, (get this) was causing me to get a transfer of weight back on to my left side while I was still completing my backswing, I said "oh, I see" but on the inside I said "YES!!!!" He wanted me to limit my hip turn to somewhere around that 48*. In that book that I just read Kris Tcshetter said Mr. Hogan ALWAYS put his left in a 45* preset, and looking at some footage it seems to be so. I have been experimenting w/turning my lead foot out more to limit my hip turn, but I DO want my weight to transfer before I finish my BS. correct? Any way to get a close or ballpark figure on Mr. Hogan's measurements of shoulder and hip turns? I thought this was interesting, wanted to share. He also said they measure 24 things and I was in the good scale on 21 of them, of course I didn't make the acceptable limits for hip turn. I wasn't too concern about this since you said no one on tour swings the club similar to Mr. Hogan. One other interesting thing, he said my hips were too level at address giving me a tendancy to lose posture at impact (tush line). He said to "point" my belt buckle more towards the ground, I have been working on that and it seems to be helping, just trying to put all the pieces together. Thanks, hope all is well w/you. Shawn

Posted: Sun 13:54, 13 Feb 2011

Great story, Shawn Cool

Thank you very much for sharing, mate.

You see, all you have written about the average standards reflects perfectly today's golf instruction. None cares at how stance should be set so it can be most effective, everyone would like to have everything parallel. Good thing is that standards changed from the dreaded X-Factor times because yours (and Mr.Hogan's...) numbers would be treated as very bad Twisted Evil

This sentence of yours deserves to be specially underlined and is an essence how some people in the branch are clueless:
" I was measured at 60* for my turn and 34* at impact, which he said, (get this) was causing me to get a transfer of weight back on to my left side while I was still completing my backswing, I said "oh, I see" but on the inside I said "YES!!!!"
Now my interpretation of these standard numbers concernin the pelvic area are:
- these 3* hips open at setup - they would probably explain it only because of primary axis tilt (caused by having rear hand lower on the grip than lead one);
- overal hips turn 48* - very positive impact of leaving the X-Factor stuff; however, if they analyze Hogan and his open hips at setup at least 10* the overall hip turn would increase up to 60* (!);
- open at impact 42* - I believe it is withing the range of correct data.

As regards hips level at address - I appear a completely weirdo comparing to all other theories but I dislike to see rear hip lower than lead one. The reason is that it would make it difficult to move hips up and back in the downswing as well as it promotes too active lead side in the backswing phase. I know that some prominent teachers endorse the reverse-K position at setup so that the linear element before/at transition is minimized (so that the impact of timing is limited) but if everything is done unintentionally and automatically it is much better from kinetic point of view to have the necessary linear part in full scale.

Cheers

Posted: Sun 19:36, 13 Feb 2011

Dariusz wrote "As regards hips level at address - I appear a completely weirdo comparing to all other theories but I dislike to see rear hip lower than lead one. The reason is that it would make it difficult to move hips up and back in the downswing as well as it promotes too active lead side in the backswing phase." Dariusz, thanks for the reply. What I was wanting to say about the "level" hips is meant to be seen from a DTL view, he was saying to me that my belt buckle needed to point more toward the ground, that I was not bending enough at my hips, causing me to lose my posture in the DS, he was fine that my hips were level from FO view. Just wanted to clear that up, something else that I had forgoten, he said my back swing was too flat! I was truly loving it. Thanks Dariusz, Shawn

Posted: Sun 21:36, 13 Feb 2011

OK, I understand now.

Backswing too flat... Wink

Great then !

Cheers